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[Scott]

Come people... let's go!   (please don't put them on imageshack or photobucket!!!)

 If you want photo hosting, go to http://photos.vwmail.net and sign up... registration is open until the end of the week.  I own that site, so your stuff is going to be protected. 

[Giggidy]

7am on a Monday morning?? Good luck Scott...

[SwiftMKIII]

I'm sure there will be pics up later.  I got to look at about 4 New Beetles and 5 R32s since those are the classes I judged.  Otherwise, I didn't get to look at any, much less take pics. 

[lnferno]

Pros:  EXCELLENT location!  I hope that PPIR is the permanent home of DATR.  The facilities were great, clean bathrooms (no port-o-potties), great venders for food/drink.  Loved the garage setup.  Autocross was fun.  PA system was good (maybe could have been a tiny bit louder, but then again, I'm pretty deaf).  Seemed to be a nice turnout of VAG enthusiasts.

Cons:  Some of the cars got overlooked from getting judged.  Apparently, because they were in some of the sponsor tents, they didn't get judged, which I don't understand, because last year cars were in sponsor tents and they still got judged.  

My friend's car, Chuck, has spent the past two years working on his widebody B5 S4.  He actually did most of the work himself which is certainly not an easy task to do, especially for someone who is not a professional.  He screwed up a few times, got way frustrated on the project and almost called it quits, but after a lot of friend and forum support, he kept at it.  After two years, I don't know of anyone who has put forth so much blood, sweat and tears into a project.  He finally got it painted recently, and spent the last week in a half in a mad rush to get the car put back togethe to have it in time for DATR.  He probably got 15-20 hours sleep total for the entire week.  But in the end, he finally got it ready for DATR.  All day long, people at DATR would come up and "oooooooooooo and ahhhhhhhhhhhhh hh" over his car and rightfully so -- this project was finally done!  Everyone thought that he'd be a shoein for sure for 1st in the B5 class after seeing this car in person.  At the end of the day, we're listening to the results at the award ceremony.  They get to the B5 class and announce 2nd place.  At that point, we all have this huge grin knowing that Chuck's car MUST have gotten 1st place.  Then they announce 1st place and it wasn't him!  Everyone had a look of complete utter and disbelief - like how in the world could this car not have even placed!?!?  One of the officials came over and apologized for the cars in the garage getting overlooked in the judging and refunded us our entry fees, but it's not about the $20 -- it's about the blood, sweat, and tears that went into such a project for it to be properly represented in its class at DATR.

So, my only real constructive criticism is that there needs to be a better system in place for judging and accountability .  For example, when one registers (pre registers online or in person the day of), when that person gets assigned a car #, that car # should be tracked from a judging perspective.  Before the judges start judging any of the cars, they should have a complete list of all of the car #s and classes.  As the cars are getting judged, you mark them off the complete list of cars getting judged so you know who has yet to be judged.  In all fairness, I know that it may sometimes be difficult tracking down all of the cars since they aren't always going to be grouped together.  In those situations, leverage the PA system.  "Car #90 - Joe Blow - we need to judge your car.  Please find us at xx location so we can find judge your car".  I don't know -- something along those lines.   Or maybe hand out one of those things like they do at restuarants -- that little buzzer thing.  When your car is ready to be judged, they'll buzz you.  Again, I'll leave it up to you guys to come up with whatever the best approach is, but you get the idea of what I'm suggesting here.   I think having something like that in place will promote better accountability for all of the cars that need to be judged.  

[snoopy]

I suck ~ didn't go.  If it had been on a Saturday, I would have been there with or without a car.

[Giggidy]

I blame Ed

[Barry]

Cons:  Some of the cars got overlooked from getting judged.  Apparently, because they were in some of the sponsor tents, they didn't get judged, which I don't understand, because last year cars were in sponsor tents and they still got judged.  

My friend's car, Chuck, has spent the past two years working on his widebody B5 S4.  He actually did most of the work himself which is certainly not an easy task to do, especially for someone who is not a professional.  He screwed up a few times, got way frustrated on the project and almost called it quits, but after a lot of friend and forum support, he kept at it.  After two years, I don't know of anyone who has put forth so much blood, sweat and tears into a project.  He finally got it painted recently, and spent the last week in a half in a mad rush to get the car put back togethe to have it in time for DATR.  He probably got 15-20 hours sleep total for the entire week.  But in the end, he finally got it ready for DATR.  All day long, people at DATR would come up and "oooooooooooo and ahhhhhhhhhhhhh hh" over his car and rightfully so -- this project was finally done!  Everyone thought that he'd be a shoein for sure for 1st in the B5 class after seeing this car in person.  At the end of the day, we're listening to the results at the award ceremony.  They get to the B5 class and announce 2nd place.  At that point, we all have this huge grin knowing that Chuck's car MUST have gotten 1st place.  Then they announce 1st place and it wasn't him!  Everyone had a look of complete utter and disbelief - like how in the world could this car not have even placed!?!?  One of the officials came over and apologized for the cars in the garage getting overlooked in the judging and refunded us our entry fees, but it's not about the $20 -- it's about the blood, sweat, and tears that went into such a project for it to be properly represented in its class at DATR.

So, my only real constructive criticism is that there needs to be a better system in place for judging and accountability .  For example, when one registers (pre registers online or in person the day of), when that person gets assigned a car #, that car # should be tracked from a judging perspective.  Before the judges start judging any of the cars, they should have a complete list of all of the car #s and classes.  As the cars are getting judged, you mark them off the complete list of cars getting judged so you know who has yet to be judged.  In all fairness, I know that it may sometimes be difficult tracking down all of the cars since they aren't always going to be grouped together.  In those situations, leverage the PA system.  "Car #90 - Joe Blow - we need to judge your car.  Please find us at xx location so we can find judge your car".  I don't know -- something along those lines.   Or maybe hand out one of those things like they do at restuarants -- that little buzzer thing.  When your car is ready to be judged, they'll buzz you.  Again, I'll leave it up to you guys to come up with whatever the best approach is, but you get the idea of what I'm suggesting here.   I think having something like that in place will promote better accountability for all of the cars that need to be judged.  

While I understand the qualm with the judging, you have to consider the fact that there is reasoning behind having judged cars park in assigned areas. If you have a bunch of cars that want to be judged, and they are scattered all across the venue, you will have one guy or girl running all over the venue looking for said cars. Kind of defeats the purpose of having show cars parked according to genre and class. It's kind of the price you pay for getting your car in a sponsor's booth... DATR is not the only show that will overlook a car that is parked in front of a sponsor's booth.... Not only do you have to consider the fielding of the classes, but also consider the impression you are putting off by parking your car in Brian's booth.... To me, I'd think.... "oh... that must be an Avalon car"

I understand the difficulty with the situation, and I agree that your 2 Audis would have taken the field... Guess you guys will be parking in the field next year 

[scooter]

Heard nothing but positive feedback from the AC side so far.

[lnferno]

While I understand the qualm with the judging, you have to consider the fact that there is reasoning behind having judged cars park in assigned areas. If you have a bunch of cars that want to be judged, and they are scattered all across the venue, you will have one guy or girl running all over the venue looking for said cars. Kind of defeats the purpose of having show cars parked according to genre and class. It's kind of the price you pay for getting your car in a sponsor's booth... DATR is not the only show that will overlook a car that is parked in front of a sponsor's booth.... Not only do you have to consider the fielding of the classes, but also consider the impression you are putting off by parking your car in Brian's booth.... To me, I'd think.... "oh... that must be an Avalon car"

I understand the difficulty with the situation, and I agree that your 2 Audis would have taken the field... Guess you guys will be parking in the field next year  

My main issue with that statement is that is exactly the same way we did it last year and it worked out just fine last year.  We were parked in the sponsor's tent and there was no problem with our cars getting judged.  If the rules were changed this year, I don't think the participants were made aware of that.  

[lnferno]

Edit - double post.

[LOS]

Last year there was a tuner class so all the cars did get judged because they were sponsor cars. We did away with that class because of alot of feedback due to that class. Last year the sponsors also were not in an enclosed space. It was easier to forget about the cars in the garage because pretty much everyone EXCEPT Avalon had sponsor cars in their booth that were not registered. It's hard to draw a line when a car is in a booth. Everyone is going to assume a sponsor helped or put to together. I apologize regarding this, I will address the issue for next year and find a way to make it work for both sides. It's hard to judge a car amongst it's peers if it's not sitting next to them as well. Part of the reason why I have been so adamant about having cars parked by class every year instead of as they roll in. It would save me ALOT of time if I didn't. Again I will see how best to tackle the issue and get a solution for next year.  

[lpshade]

Cons:  Some of the cars got overlooked from getting judged.  Apparently, because they were in some of the sponsor tents, they didn't get judged, which I don't understand, because last year cars were in sponsor tents and they still got judged.  

One of the officials came over and apologized for the cars in the garage getting overlooked in the judging and refunded us our entry fees, but it's not about the $20 -- it's about the blood, sweat, and tears that went into such a project for it to be properly represented in its class at DATR.

Yes, this was an oversight on our part and we discuss this after the show to find out what took place, unfortunately we cannot fix the problem as it is already pasted but I did go over and speak with one of the participants who was overlooked and did refund the entry fee and give a sincere apology.

Just to further explain:

We have a system in place so all cars would get judged. We had specific classes laid out for personnel to park their cars. Our registration personnel were telling people as they registered their cars would need to be in the respective classing area by noon (when judging started) to have their car judged. It is a possibility this information may have not been passed along but we do have a system in place.

The reason why we do not want judging cars to be displayed with the sponsors is the exact reason you are expressing. If judging cars want to be with sponsor that is fine but for them to be judged they need to be in their respective class as least 15 mins prior to judging starts.

We will look at this more in-depth but most likely to eliminate this problem all together judging cars will not be allowed to stay in the sponsor areas. For 2 reasons, excess driving through the show area and a overlooked vehicles.

This post cannot fix what has already took place, but your insight does provide good feedback and allows us to find away to correct the problem of people who have blood sweat and tears into their vehicle who rightly should have a chance to compete fairly amongst their class.            

[lpshade]

Heard nothing but positive feedback from the AC side so far.

Good News Scott

Next year there is going be a much bigger focus on the air cooled side - hopefully we can bring some of the AC guys/gals to help with plannning.  

[Jesus]

It's too bad that some cars were missed but the bottom line is (like has already been said) is that you really should display your car with the "general population" (for lack of a better term) .. if you expect to compete in the show.

Just having a car parked in a sponsor booth and receiving a show award in itself gives the perception that you had an unfair advantage.  You might know that you built and paid for the car but the other guy who's butt hurt over a $20 trophy may not know that.

[lpshade]

While I understand the qualm with the judging, you have to consider the fact that there is reasoning behind having judged cars park in assigned areas. If you have a bunch of cars that want to be judged, and they are scattered all across the venue, you will have one guy or girl running all over the venue looking for said cars. Kind of defeats the purpose of having show cars parked according to genre and class. It's kind of the price you pay for getting your car in a sponsor's booth... DATR is not the only show that will overlook a car that is parked in front of a sponsor's booth.... Not only do you have to consider the fielding of the classes, but also consider the impression you are putting off by parking your car in Brian's booth.... To me, I'd think.... "oh... that must be an Avalon car"

I understand the difficulty with the situation, and I agree that your 2 Audis would have taken the field... Guess you guys will be parking in the field next year  

My main issue with that statement is that is exactly the same way we did it last year and it worked out just fine last year.  We were parked in the sponsor's tent and there was no problem with our cars getting judged.  If the rules were changed this year, I don't think the participants were made aware of that.  

While I understand the qualm with the judging, you have to consider the fact that there is reasoning behind having judged cars park in assigned areas. If you have a bunch of cars that want to be judged, and they are scattered all across the venue, you will have one guy or girl running all over the venue looking for said cars. Kind of defeats the purpose of having show cars parked according to genre and class. It's kind of the price you pay for getting your car in a sponsor's booth... DATR is not the only show that will overlook a car that is parked in front of a sponsor's booth.... Not only do you have to consider the fielding of the classes, but also consider the impression you are putting off by parking your car in Brian's booth.... To me, I'd think.... "oh... that must be an Avalon car"

I understand the difficulty with the situation, and I agree that your 2 Audis would have taken the field... Guess you guys will be parking in the field next year  

My main issue with that statement is that is exactly the same way we did it last year and it worked out just fine last year.  We were parked in the sponsor's tent and there was no problem with our cars getting judged.  If the rules were changed this year, I don't think the participants were made aware of that.  

While I understand the qualm with the judging, you have to consider the fact that there is reasoning behind having judged cars park in assigned areas. If you have a bunch of cars that want to be judged, and they are scattered all across the venue, you will have one guy or girl running all over the venue looking for said cars. Kind of defeats the purpose of having show cars parked according to genre and class. It's kind of the price you pay for getting your car in a sponsor's booth... DATR is not the only show that will overlook a car that is parked in front of a sponsor's booth.... Not only do you have to consider the fielding of the classes, but also consider the impression you are putting off by parking your car in Brian's booth.... To me, I'd think.... "oh... that must be an Avalon car"

I understand the difficulty with the situation, and I agree that your 2 Audis would have taken the field... Guess you guys will be parking in the field next year  

My main issue with that statement is that is exactly the same way we did it last year and it worked out just fine last year.  We were parked in the sponsor's tent and there was no problem with our cars getting judged.  If the rules were changed this year, I don't think the participants were made aware of that.  

Your right it did happen last you and it really shouldn’t have.  2010 show will eliminate that so there is fair judging across the board and to avoid missed cars. It might have worked out fine for those participants who can just drive in and park, but it’s a complete nightmare for us who put on the show and who have to do the judging and it’s not going to happen for anyone of our judging volunteers to run around all over the place to try and figure out where a car might be throughout the show area.

But as GotMyDub stated, there is a reason why we have classing setup and the reasoning why we have volunteers parking each individual classes in specific areas.

[greggearhead]

Yep - good show, nice turnout and well run.  Was a little confusing on the entry, where to go to park, sign up, then drive back around, but not bad at all.  Nice job. 

[Southcross]

Yep - good show, nice turnout and well run.  Was a little confusing on the entry, where to go to park, sign up, then drive back around, but not bad at all.  Nice job. 

what would you suggest?

[lnferno]

Your right it did happen last you and it really shouldn’t have.  2010 show will eliminate that so there is fair judging across the board and to avoid missed cars. It might have worked out fine for those participants who can just drive in and park, but it’s a complete nightmare for us who put on the show and who have to do the judging and it’s not going to happen for anyone of our judging volunteers to run around all over the place to try and figure out where a car might be throughout the show area.

But as GotMyDub stated, there is a reason why we have classing setup and the reasoning why we have volunteers parking each individual classes in specific areas.

Yeah, like I said, I don't want to dwell on it.  I know nothing was intentional and it was an honest mistake.  I guess the lessoned learned (on both sides) is to have a crystal clear understanding of the rules going forward before the show even starts.

For next year, will there be a link on DATR that will have a page of the rules so that they are clear for everyone in terms of the whole grouping of cars & classes, cars in sponsor's booth's, etc?

[LOS]

Yes I'll make sure there is some info posted regarding parking cars in sponsor areas.  We will also make the sponsors aware as if they are counting on some of their customers to park cars there, they need to know the car will not be judged. That way every one is on the same page.

[lnferno]

Yes I'll make sure there is some info posted regarding parking cars in sponsor areas.  We will also make the sponsors aware as if they are counting on some of their customers to park cars there, they need to know the car will not be judged. That way every one is on the same page.

That sounds good.  I, for one, have absolutely no problem with that rule (just as long as we know about that rule).

[euro trash]

now that thats solved lets see the pics!!!!!

[lpshade]

Yep - good show, nice turnout and well run.  Was a little confusing on the entry, where to go to park, sign up, then drive back around, but not bad at all.  Nice job.  

what would you suggest?

Ed, I think we have good practices in place but we need to distribute the information better and get the vols in place a little beforehand - Practice it out more (so to speak)

[Southcross]

Personally, I'd look at having a sponsor's car in with the rest of the class (covered in "VENDORNAME, see us at VENDORTENT" materials) as advertising something applicable to that specific class of car  (nothing builds a class like envy of what someone else did).  

If I had a "speed shop" and wanted to cater to say Mk1, Mk2, and Mk3 performance Autocross and racing builds... I'd have one of each car, paid for a "show car space" for each, and had 50 square feet of banners and signs with my "speed shop name" & fliers & information saying: "come see me in the Vendor garage"...  there... I'd have a "work in progress" car showing suspension fabrication, modications, bolt on parts, etc etc... instead of trying to jam 5 cars in the 10' in front of my vendor space.

just my .02 in Canadian money

[Southcross]

Ed, I think we have good practices in place but we need to distribute the information better and get the vols in place a little beforehand - Practice it out more (so to speak)

I have a "shouda'done list"... I'm just curious if Greg has anything that I might not have thought of

[lpshade]

Personally, I'd look at having a sponsor's car in with the rest of the class (covered in "VENDORNAME, see us at VENDORTENT" materials) as advertising something applicable to that specific class of car  (nothing builds a class like envy of what someone else did). 

If I had a "speed shop" and wanted to cater to say Mk1, Mk2, and Mk3 performance Autocross and racing builds... I'd have one of each car, paid for a "show car space" for each, and had 50 square feet of banners and signs with my "speed shop name" & fliers & information saying: "come see me in the Vendor garage"...  there... I'd have a "work in progress" car showing suspension fabrication, modications, bolt on parts, etc etc... instead of trying to jam 5 cars in the 10' in front of my vendor space.

just my .02 in Canadian money

So, this is just a thought. If your "speed shop" cars have a bunch of money put into them; then why would anyone else want to compete knowing you will most likey be the winner every year? Just some food for thought.